9 comments

• • Michael Sizer

    February 23, 2016 at 4:31 pm

    Regarding pain being “reason enough” to opt out of childbirth: why does anyone need “enough” reason at all? Any reason at all is reason enough to make decisions about one’s own body imo.

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    • • Callie Coker

        February 23, 2016 at 4:53 pm

        You are absolutely right Michael! 🙂 No one should need to justify their decisions about their own body.

        Reply

• • Lisa

    February 24, 2016 at 3:59 am

    I was so glad to hear an episode that related veganism and atheism, since I’m a vegan atheist. A lot of vegans I know are atheists, but NOT the other way around. So many atheists (at least on podcasts I listen to) ridicule veganism. That being said, I do see a lot of “woo woo spirituality” in my vegan circles. For example, someone who I met in my vegan meetup group was telling me about a farming technique he learned that is even better than organic because the plants are grown in the “correct” spiritual way. I belong to a facebook group called “woo free vegans,” which was created in response to the prevalence of pseudoscience in vegan communities. Have you two addressed that at all? I would love to hear your take on it. I think that when people associate veganism with reiki and other pseudoscience, it discredits our arguments.

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    • • Nichole

        February 24, 2016 at 12:34 pm

        I totally agree that some vegans make the woo too much a part of the movement, when it’s not. But, I also get frustrated with atheists who are so afraid of the woo that they label *everything* woo. Drugs were developed from plants, initially, so why is it so crazy that something like essential oils might be useful in certain situations? Why is it acceptable to use aloe for a sunburn, or drink ginger ale for a tummy ache, but using lavender oil for a sunburn or a digestive blend (with ginger in it!) is “woo”? Lots of people use tea tree oil for things like canker sores and acne, is that woo? I hope more studies are being done to show that some alternative treatments (that have been around for hundreds or thousands of years) have validity. I think there’s a definite difference between using woo to “pray cancer away” and using, say, acupuncture to relieve pain (only thing that has ever worked for my back, including chiropractic care and heavy drugs). I have also had great luck with Chinese herbs for menstrual issues after several doctor’s visits did nothing to help. Since atheists are critical thinkers, it would be nice if, as a community, as a whole, they could step back and separate the woo from reasonable, logical arguments to the morality and efficacy of a vegan lifestyle, and stop rejecting the movement outright because of some pieces that they don’t like, that don’t actually have anything to do with the movement itself. Sigh, we’ll get there! I think both groups are working on being more open and accepting, I hope that new waves of both movements will bring us all closer together 🙂 Thank you for listening and thank you for commenting!!!

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    • • Nichole

        February 24, 2016 at 12:35 pm

        PS – that farmer sounds ridiculous. That definitely is the type of woo that needs to go!

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        • • Lisa

            February 24, 2016 at 11:21 pm

            Thanks for the feedback! I didn’t know that people consider essential oils to be “woo.” Of course plants have medicinal properties! Personally I see nothing weird about putting lavender on a sunburn. I put lavender oil on bee stings, and I drink chamomile tea for its calming effects. I’m sick of the word “woo,” but since people use it maybe we should all get more on the same page about what we even mean by it. I think you’re right that more studies are needed, and if people are more open-minded on all sides it will bring the movement(s) together.

            Reply

• • Lisa

    February 24, 2016 at 4:56 am

    I just listened to the second half of the episode, and “woo” was addressed a lot, so disregard my question about whether or not you will address it. 🙂 I am a scientist, and I’m on the skeptical side of things, but yes there should be more conversations.

    Reply

• • Hannah

    April 10, 2017 at 8:38 pm

    Culturally, you don’t talk about religion and politics at the dinner table. I think this extends to gender norms as well as ethics of diet. For many people, it seems like it’s not really acceptable to have an in depth conversation about these things anywhere. I am uncertain of the source of this stigma. At first, I thought it was that people did not feel confident in their beliefs, so they didn’t want to risk a crisis of faith. Now, I think this is granting too much credit, and people are just raised in a culture where they’re taught not to discuss and by extension think about these topics. I believe this is one of the main factors making it so challenging to have a conversation about any of these topics with people. It’s like getting a kid to try vegetables. They already know what they think about vegetables, and so even when they “taste” a vegetable they do not fully consider that experience to inform their opinion of the vegetable. I’d been thinking about this a bit lately and expected this episode to touch on this relation (although it was a very good episode all the same). It is somewhat related to woo in the sense of atheists cherry-picking explanations to fit their current norms, but that doesn’t really address the source of the barrier. I also think atheism is more common because it is a more comfortable concept to question in the sense that the result of not having to go to church or perform some positive behavior might be convenient whereas totally changing your diet/lifestyle is not so convenient. What do you both think?

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• • Janet

    July 9, 2017 at 2:57 pm

    I just listened to this podcast. Totally amazing, as all your shows seem to be. Even my husband enjoyed it and was saddened when it was over. Granted he got home about 2/3rds of the way through it and was almost done with his chores when it ended. He said, “It needs 10 more minutes” before scurrying off to vacuum. There was a mention in the earlier portion of the podcast about the VWPA having their own atheist group. I would be interested in joining if it is still active. Please advise on how to find the group.

    Reply

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